Exclusive Interview: Dr. Idries Trevathan

Dr. Idries Trevathan is a renowned art historian, educator, and author known for his expertise in Islamic art and its cultural and spiritual dimensions. With a focus on the artistic heritage of the Islamic world, he has contributed significantly to the understanding of Islamic art's aesthetics, history, and symbolism.

What initially sparked your interest in Islamic art, and how did that shape your career in art conservation and curation?

My interest in Islamic art emerged early in my studies, where I focused on art conservation and curation. I trained as an art conservator at the City & Guilds of London Art School and later earned a PhD in Islamic art from the King’s Foundation School of Traditional Arts in London. Throughout my career, my passion for Islamic art has remained strong, rooted in the desire to preserve its rich historical traditions while making them accessible to contemporary audiences.

Could you tell us about some of the most significant Islamic art conservation projects you've worked on, such as the Malay Qur’an manuscripts or Damascene reception rooms?

I curated the Hijrah: In the Footsteps of the Prophet exhibition which was a significant milestone in the cultural landscape of Saudi Arabia and Islamic art in general. I think this is my most significant project I’ve worked on to date.

 If you’d like to learn more about my work with Hijrah, please see the Aramco World Magazine article: https://www.aramcoworld.com/Articles/July-2023/Hijrah-A-Journey-That-Changed-the-World . This article was based on an interview with me so please feel free to quote the article.

How do you approach the challenge of preserving the aesthetic and spiritual integrity of Islamic art while ensuring its conservation for future generations?

Very simple answer: In order to preserve aesthetic and spiritual integrity of Islamic art, we must support traditional Islamic master artisans by commissioning them to create new works. Islamic art is a living breathing tradition that deserves our support. 

Your book Colour, Light and Wonder in Islamic Art delves into the symbolism of color. Could you elaborate on the role of color in Islamic art and how it influences perception?

My book explores the often-overlooked role of color in Islamic visual culture. Color plays a deeply symbolic role in Islamic art, often carrying spiritual and cultural connotations that influence how the art is perceived and experienced. These colors are not used merely for decoration; they are intended to evoke specific emotional and spiritual reflections from the viewer, deepening their connection to the themes within the artwork. In my book, I examine the philosophical and mystical traditions that informed Islamic art, where color serves as a language that expresses knowledge beyond the physical realm. Among other things, I attempt to counter the view held by some art historians that the purpose of Islamic art was simply to encourage purely sensuous feelings of pleasure. I argue that this interpretation is incomplete and that the premodern Islamic appreciation for colour was more multi-faceted. For example, my research into colour perception, beginning with the work of Ibn al Haytham (his 10^th century treatise on optics), and concluding with the 19th century mystical treatise of Kirmani, showed that the sensuous joy and delight engendered by colour was for some only the first step in a potential process leading to greater levels of realization and knowledge. This suggests that there is further research to do in relation to colour and the potential functions of Islamic art.

My book should be considered as part of a growing shift from strict documentation and analysis of artworks, as is prevalent in many previous books on the subject, to an approach which uses more interpretative strategies as evidenced in the work of writers on Islamic aesthetics (some writers who address this include Necipoğlu, Elias and Gonzalez). My focus on the reception of colour in Islamic art and architecture within the societies that produced them is an overlooked aspect of the study of Islamic visual culture. By basing this study on the philosophical and mystical traditions that formed the backdrop of important Islamic monuments, my research moves away from more conventional methodologies used by other art historians and goes further towards creating a lens from which to consider colour from different perspectives. I try to show how these perspectives help to shed light on how colours in art may have been experienced differently from today, experienced in ways that are closer to how they were written about and conceptualized in the contemporary Islamic literature.

What are some unique characteristics of Islamic art that you find most compelling, and how do you highlight these in the exhibitions you curate at Ithra?

I try to curate exhibitions that address the multifaceted nature of Islamic art. My inspiration is the various modes of interpretation which one finds in primary historical sources and modern secondary sources and data: firstly, the aesthetic/semiotic phenomenological approach seeking networks and patterns of intersubjective, embodied, perceptual meanings and values; secondly, the symbolic/ philosophical approach informed by intuitive, esoteric and theosophical investigation; and finally, the art historical discipline whose approach grounds this study by focusing on rigorous collection and evaluation of hard data. Therefore, I try to be inclusive of a whole range of meanings, interpretations and primary and secondary sources in my research. 

How does your work at Ithra contribute to expanding global awareness and appreciation of Islamic art and culture?

At Ithra, our work is focused on expanding global awareness and appreciation of Islamic art and culture through a variety of exhibitions, conferences, and international collaborations. For example, our In Praise of the Artisan exhibition showcases both historical masterpieces and contemporary works, emphasizing the enduring relevance of Islamic craftsmanship. Through initiatives like the Islamic Art Conference, we aim to bridge the gap between traditional and modern artistic practices, fostering a deeper understanding of Islamic culture on a global scale. One key message we aim to communicate is that Islamic art is not just a relic of the past, but a living tradition with timeless beauty and functionality. Through our efforts, we support the continuation of these traditions, ensuring their relevance for future generations.

Could you discuss the key themes behind The Art of Orientation and how it reshapes the understanding of mosques through art objects?

The Art of Orientation is an exhibition that I curated at Ithra in 2021. It explored the historical significance, evolution, and function of mosques, along with their interiors and artifacts. Through international partnerships, it brought together the largest and finest collection of Islamic masterworks ever displayed in Saudi Arabia. The exhibition featured several pieces originally from the Two Holy Mosques of Makkah and Medina on loan from the National Museum in Riyadh, 84 works from the Museum of Islamic Arts in Cairo under the direction of the Supreme Council of Egyptian Antiquities, and 34 objects from Ithra’s collection.

The exhibition examined mosques not only as places of worship but also as community centers with diverse functions. Mosques are not only places of worship but also symbols of a community and shared beliefs, history, and values. While the visual identity, from geometric patterns, calligraphy, and distinctive architectural forms is important, the true essence of a mosque’s identity is also found in its role as a communal space that fosters a sense of belonging and shared culture.

What are the biggest challenges facing Islamic art conservation today, and how do you address them in your work?

I find it ironic that the Islamic is often inadvertently presented as a rarefied work of art, frozen in time. All too often the specific focus of those investigating Islamic art history is on the development of artistic forms and stylistic features. The result is, that the human element around these works is often missing and appreciation of their historic functions and meanings for the societies for whom they were made is too often neglected. I try to create context in the exhibitions as much as possible through audiovisuals and specially designed tours.

Another challenge is to challenge the misconception of traditional Islamic art as something from a dead and distant past and only accessed in museums or historic monuments. Islamic art is a living breathing tradition that, in my view, is timeless. Artisans are taken for granted and neglected. My feeling is to neglect traditional artisans is to neglect one’s own culture, identity and the thing that makes us unique.   

How do you see the future of Islamic art evolving, both in terms of academic research and public engagement, particularly in the context of Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030?

Islamic art will evolve through a blend of academic research and public engagement. Institutions like Ithra are playing a key role in making Islamic art more accessible by offering exhibitions, educational programs, and interactive experiences, all while maintaining a high standard of academic rigor and research quality. Islamic art is so rich in history that the primary challenge, now and in the future, will be finding the right balance between honoring its deep heritage and introducing a fresh narrative that bridges the past with contemporary practices. This approach will allow Islamic art to resonate with younger and wider audiences, ensuring its continued relevance and appeal.

What I’ve learnt from curating exhibitions in Saudi Arabia approach is the need to make Islamic art collections accessible and relevant for modern Saudi audiences. I’ve learnt that there is a high level of public interest in learning more about the specific contexts and connections between objects and the geography, history, culture and societies from which they originated. The Saudi public are generally opposed to general museum practices that treat Islamic objects as self-referential objets d’art or masterpieces with little or no information or context provided. The context is key when presenting Islamic art. I believe that there is so much to gain from the consideration of a work of art in relation to the aesthetic context in which it was made. Therefore, I’m so interested to understand more about the experience of the viewer (the public), as well as their attitudes towards beauty, function and meaning.